Town of Red Hook Town Board
Workshop Meeting
July 27, 2005
A workshop of the Red Hook Town Board was held Wednesday July 27, 2005 at
7:30 p.m. with the following in attendance:
Supervisor – Marirose Blum Bump
Councilman – James Ross
Councilwoman – Sue Crane
Councilwoman – Jean Bordewich
Councilman – Harold Ramsey
Town Clerk – Margaret E. Doty
Also present: Deputy Supervisor William O’Neill
Supervisor Blum Bump opened the workshop with a 15 minute comment period.
Resident Linda Keeling said this her third and final request for the FOIL
inquires 10 questions for Marirose and the Town Board, also questions
regarding Victor Cornelius grant writing for the Town.
Supervisor Blum Bump said we have answered your questions at a public meeting
and Jean has answered you in writing.
Linda said I want this in writing and I also requested a copy of the contract
with Victor Cornelius.
Councilwoman Bordewich said she had answered that there is no written
contract.
Linda responded she wants Marirose to answer her questions in writing.
Resident Rosemarie Zengen…why is the agenda out on Monday and not on the
website so people can review it and arrange to attend the meeting if they want
to.
Councilwoman Bordewich said she is not responsible for the agenda but it is
her understanding an agenda is not necessary for a workshop. It only is
required at a business meeting.
Rosemarie asked why can’t you have the agenda out five days before so the
people can come here with open government and respond.
The second question….recently you decided to settle the Central Hudson problem
with eminent domain. Does that mean that every taxpayer should be concerned
with his or her property with the recent Supreme Court ruling? Would we
establish an ordinance to protect the residents?
Councilwoman Bordewich said this will be discussed later so you may want to
wait until Joel Sachs discusses this later.
Kathy Stewart said the recent Supreme Court ruling on eminent domain was for
the State of Connecticut and not for New York. I believe we have a different
situation here.
Ken Migliorelli… I own some of lands that the strip of Central Hudson goes
through and I wouldn’t want to see development of that land. I would like
eminent domain used as a last resort.
Rosemarie Zengen said Kathy Stewart was wrong as this involves every state not
just Connecticut.
Supervisor Blum Bump said the land owned by Central Hudson a 7 mile strip from
the eastern side of our Town to the western side. They will sell the parcels
by 2005. Question is who do we want to own this land? If individuals buy from
Central Hudson we will have unwanted development. If the Town gets the
property they will keep it undeveloped and keep it to support our farmland
protection efforts, give our Town recreation areas they need and provide for
future trail. It will also protect our water resources with the wetlands.
Tonight the Town Board will discuss Central Hudson land purchase through
eminent domain as we have discussed the purchase and been turned down. Deputy
Supervisor O’Neill will explain.
Deputy Supervisor O’Neill explained that February 15th they met with Central
Hudson concerning the sale of 253 acres, 29 parcels. The Board first offer in
May was 1.4 million, than it went 1.75 by the end of May, this was parcels
1-12. West of 9G was to be purchased by Scenic Hudson and added as part of
Tivoli Bays.
At the end of May we met with our appraiser what was the value we could offer
for parcels 1-12 1.9 million.
We than wanted to buy the four parcels we were interested from Central Hudson
and went up to $765,000. Than by June 27th we were advised by Central Hudson
they were no longer going to negotiate with the Town of Red Hook. So than the
subject of eminent domain was discussed. We will shortly discuss this and
answer questions. The public purpose for this has to be discussed so we have
asked the Recreation Commission and the CAC on trails.
Joel Sachs, Environment Attorney has worked for the Town for 15 years. The New
York Constitution says that private property can be taken for public use if
the land benefits the public, the municipality can condemn land for a public
park and open space purposes. If they do acquire the land the property owner
they are entitled to just compensation.
Since Central Hudson has decided to sell to individual owner, the Town is
considering acquiring some or all of these parcels for open space, recreation
purposes and park purposes. This is a lengthy process and the residents of the
Town have a say whether or not to vote in a special referendum. The first step
in the process is there has to be a public hearing, than the Town Board will
decide if it is in the best interest of the Town to condemn this land. What
will be the impact on this, will a public use be served, a public benefit.
What is the impact on the Town itself, on the residents and the environment
etc?
After the public hearing the Board will vote to condemn all the parcels or
vote to condemn some of the parcels. Next step the Town has to go back to
Central Hudson and negotiate to acquire that land at a fair market value.
If that fails than the Town Board has the right to vote to proceed with the
condemnation however before the Town Board can proceed it has to know where
the money is coming from for the cost of the land they are acquiring from
Central Hudson. In order to do that they need to pass a bond resolution to pay
Central Hudson whatever the value of the land is. That bond resolution would
be subject to a mandatory referendum so every resident would have the
opportunity to vote as to whether or not they agree with the Town borrowing
money to fund the purchase. If the residents vote yes that we go to the next
step which is the actual condemnation. If the residents vote no than that ends
the whole condemnation process and than Central Hudson is free to do what it
wants with the land. Next week’s public hearing will be the first step. At the
end of that hearing the Board will make a decision if you believe it is in the
interest of the residents of the Town than you start the condemnation.
Councilwoman Bordewich questioned how much would we pay for the land.
Attorney Sachs said only what the appraiser had determined. What the land is
valued at.
If the two parties can’t agree after the land has been appraised than the
matter would go to the Supreme Court in Poughkeepsie and that judge would
decide what Central Hudson would be paid for the land.
The 4th step is to commence with the condemnation proceeding which requires
another petition filed in the court and you have three years to do that from
the time you make the initial decision that the condemnation has a public
purpose.
After the public hearing the Board will decide to condemn some of the parcels,
all of the parcels or none of the parcels. The public will make the decision
on this.
Councilwoman Crane…in the time interest would the time frame be so we could
put it on the ballot for the November election to avoid additional cost.
Attorney Sachs said he would have to research the law to find out if there
would be enough time.
Councilwoman Crane said it troubles me that if a private citizen has already
acquired the land by contract in which case we are not condemning Central
Hudson but the people.
Councilwoman Bordewich said she had checked the PSC and no contracts by
Central Hudson have been filed. At this stage are we legally required to
notify all adjacent landowners, and should we notify the PSC.
Attorney Sachs said yes we should definitely notify the PSC and notify the
adjacent landowners that we are holding this public hearing on August 3rd.
Councilman Ramsey questioned if we go ahead with eminent domain what legal
action does Central Hudson have to come back at us?
Attorney Sachs said I don’t believe that they do it is so clear that we are
acquiring land for Open Space, Recreation and Park land, a legitimate public
purpose. I don’t think Central Hudson can stop the condemnation. The only
thing they can say is that their land is worth more than the Town is willing
to pay for it.
We will negotiate and if they refuse our offer we’ll start the condemnation
process. Central Hudson will go to a judge in Poughkeepsie with what they
think the land is worth and the judge will decide if either party can’t agree.
Councilman Ross…can our appraiser revise his appraisal?
Attorney Sachs said yes he can.
Councilwoman Crane asked if the courts would look less favorably on these
proceedings if it was know the Town of Red Hook had other opportunities to
provide equal recreational land.
Attorney Sachs replied number one does the condemnation service public
purpose. I don’t in good faith feel Central Hudson can say acquiring land for
open space, recreation and park land and protecting wetlands was not a public
purpose. The only issue would be the value of the land.
Councilman Ramsey asked if we needed to do a SEQR on the land.
Attorney Sachs said yes after the public hearing you need to pass two
resolutions, the first would be an environmental resolution and the second
resolution would be whether you wanted to condemn some, all or none of the
parcels.
Supervisor Blum Bump opened the floor to the advisory committee.
Recreation Director John Kuhn asked if the Town could just condemn just a
portion of a parcel.
Attorney Sachs responded yes you can just condemn just a portion if you needed
only a portion for recreation.
Chairman of the Recreation Commission Douglas Strawinski said we are looking
to expand our recreation park. Looking to expand all the programs that we now
offer at our Rec. Park. There are some parcels that are owned by Central
Hudson where we could do that. The Board sees the need for this and I think
this piece of land would be good for getting in and out as easily as possible
and be good for recreation purposes.
The soccer program alone has 500 children and we are renting land to
accommodate them so we are looking at this land to satisfy our needs.
Brenda Cagle CAC…we feel this would be an opportunity to go forward protecting
open space and the wetlands and to live in a rural town so we support the
purchase.
Ruth Oja, CAC Chairperson expresses views in support of the wetlands.
Kim Barkley member of the CAC spoke of the property being used as a trail and
along with the CAC who has worked so hard on trails would like to see this
trail become a reality.
Robert McKeon Chairman of the Agricultural Advisory Committee pointed out that
these parcels owned by Central Hudson go through four major farms in the Town
of Red Hook. Eminent domain is one way to protect these farms, than sell the
land back at fair market value. This area is the bread basket of Red Hook and
we have to look at all the options we have.
Councilwoman Bordewich questioned if we had any other options.
Attorney Sachs said the simple way would be to negotiate a purchase or have
the property owner give a gift to the Town and they get a tax benefit. If the
property owner offers a conservation easement they would get tax benefit plus
a reduction in their assessment of their property.
Supervisor Blum Bump opened the floor again for question of Attorney Joel
Sachs.
Rosemarie Zengen questioned why did we threaten Central Hudson with eminent
domain?
Attorney Sachs said it is my understanding an offer was made by the Town and
was rejected by Central Hudson’s broker and that ended negotiations.
Rosemarie said in the last letter to Central Hudson it said if they do not
work with the Town eminent domain would be considered.
The second question would eminent domain benefit private and commercial
developers.
Attorney Sachs said eminent domain by the Town has nothing to do with
benefiting private or commercial developers it has to do with residents of the
Town desiring open space, recreation parks and trails. The Town is not
acquiring this for commercial or development.
Rosemarie Zengen asked Attorney Sachs if he really believed Central Hudson was
not going to go to court and proceed with litigation.
Attorney Sachs replied with the public purpose we are presenting I don’t see
what kind of argument they could make that’s not a public purpose. The only
way they could sue the Town was that their land is worth more than the Town is
willing to pay.
Councilwoman Crane said if we purchased all the lands and than could we sell
the land back to the landowner.
Attorney Sachs replied I would suggest you condemn only the lands you are
going to use only the portions you are going to require. I will also look into
conservation easements for trails.
Councilwoman Bordewich thanked Deputy Supervisor O’Neill and Attorney Joel
Sachs and all the committees it was very informative.
Supervisor Blum Bump pointed out that since Central Hudson first came to the
Town with their offer we have worked long and hard on this. What happens to
this land as it has a big impact on the Town. I would like to thank everyone
who worked so hard, Bill O’Neill, Joel Sachs and all the committees for
participating.
The next item on the Agenda was the Fiscal Year 2005 Legislative Grant.
Councilman Ramsey asked that the resolutions be passed at a Board meeting not
at a workshop this is a business decision.
Supervisor Blum Bump said this is not a new decision we applied for the grant
and received the grant.
RESOLUTION 2005 #21
RE – Signature of Legal Document
Resolution offered by Councilwoman Bordewich, seconded by Councilman Ross
authorizing Supervisor Blum Bump to sign the legal document on the recently
received $25,000 grant.
Copy Attached
Supervisor Blum Bump - Yes
Councilman Ross - Yes
Councilwoman Crane - Yes
Councilwoman Bordewich - Yes
Councilman Ramsey - No
Form from CH Energy regarding "Stray Voltage".
Councilman Ramsey said he would call William Cotting of Central Hudson and
take care of this.
Supervisor Blum Bump said she would like to know what the board thought about
Central Hudson, something to put before the public.
Councilwoman Bordewich said I would rather wait until the public hearing to
see what the public has to say.
Councilman Ross said I would like to have the committees be more specific.
Councilman Ramsey who will not be present said he would obtain a copy from
Panda.
Councilman Ramsey said he has spoken to the Ethics Committee and hopes we can
pass it soon.
Councilwoman Bordewich said she has compiled the letter to the Assessor and
will E-mail it after it is signed by the Supervisor.
Motion by Councilwoman Bordewich, seconded by Supervisor Blum Bump meeting
adjourned 10:20 p.m.
Town Clerk, Margaret E. Doty